Help getting off after 7 years of being on (for fertility)

[a_ahmed]

I got on HRT at 23, then at one point got off to freeze my sperm. I always thought I'd do IVF only in Canada and that I wouldn't have to ever get off again (it was traumatizing physically mentally and emotionally). Well after 4 failed IVF attempts and lots of money later... the last IVF with my wife was successful but resulted in a neural tube defect and the loss of our child. I've gone through so much trauma in the past decade with hormonal issues and with IVF attempts.

Now we found a place abroad which costs a lot less, but I have 0 sperm. My count before HRT and during clomid after I got off ranged in the 0.5-3mil range. Abnormally low requiring IVF+ICSI

Since I can't produce fresh sperm, I have to get off... Otherwise transporting my frozen sperm is very costly and a long beaurocratic process to get paper work completed in the other country for recieving  and custom purposes.

So I need help to survive this process, to produce maximum sperm and to not shrivel away and get super fat.

I took a break from bodybuilding for about two years then got back into it mid last year... and I was finally making progress but here we go gotta get off... of all things right now i'm on test, equi, tren and deca... so pretty harsh...

My plan first month:

HCG 2000iu Mon and Thur
Clomid 150mg ED
Aromasin 12.5mg ED

Second month:

Clomid 100mg ED
Aromasin 12.5mg ED

Then continue on until procedure where I have to jerk off and give sample lol...

 

At the same time I was thinking adding GHRP2+MOD-GRF to retain gains and starve off fat... some ppl mentioned SARMs but if I am not mistaken those kill sperm no? Or only some do? I don't want to be sterile... I need maximum sperm lol... I think mk and that other number one lol are like GHRP but oral... so not testosterone related?

 

Please help... to top it off I am pretty stressed at work and with other things and this has to happen... my biggest stress relief in life has been bodybuilding where i could cope with anything...

[Corey5150]

1 hour ago, a_ahmed said:

I got on HRT at 23, then at one point got off to freeze my sperm. I always thought I'd do IVF only in Canada and that I wouldn't have to ever get off again (it was traumatizing physically mentally and emotionally). Well after 4 failed IVF attempts and lots of money later... the last IVF with my wife was successful but resulted in a neural tube defect and the loss of our child. I've gone through so much trauma in the past decade with hormonal issues and with IVF attempts.

Now we found a place abroad which costs a lot less, but I have 0 sperm. My count before HRT and during clomid after I got off ranged in the 0.5-3mil range. Abnormally low requiring IVF+ICSI

Since I can't produce fresh sperm, I have to get off... Otherwise transporting my frozen sperm is very costly and a long beaurocratic process to get paper work completed in the other country for recieving  and custom purposes.

So I need help to survive this process, to produce maximum sperm and to not shrivel away and get super fat.

I took a break from bodybuilding for about two years then got back into it mid last year... and I was finally making progress but here we go gotta get off... of all things right now i'm on test, equi, tren and deca... so pretty harsh...

My plan first month:

HCG 2000iu Mon and Thur
Clomid 150mg ED
Aromasin 12.5mg ED

Second month:

Clomid 100mg ED
Aromasin 12.5mg ED

Then continue on until procedure where I have to jerk off and give sample lol...

 

At the same time I was thinking adding GHRP2+MOD-GRF to retain gains and starve off fat... some ppl mentioned SARMs but if I am not mistaken those kill sperm no? Or only some do? I don't want to be sterile... I need maximum sperm lol... I think mk and that other number one lol are like GHRP but oral... so not testosterone related?

 

Please help... to top it off I am pretty stressed at work and with other things and this has to happen... my biggest stress relief in life has been bodybuilding where i could cope with anything...

Sorry to hear about the rough time you guys are having.

here are my thoughts:

- with all the money you have spent on this and the stress I’m sure it’s causing both of you - come off everything. Stay off until it’s resolved. Prioritize what’s more important, who cares if you lose a bit - it’ll come back, don’t overeat and do some cardio.. won’t get fat. Jumping back and forth is simply continuing to kill your chances of recovery. 

- don’t bother starting your planned pct until you’re below therapeutic levels of the drugs (Given the enanthate ester for example I wouldn’t recommend starting pct until a minimum of 5 weeks have passed - considering your use of the other drugs adjust to the longest ester). 

- look up the combination of HMG and HCG. This has shown a drastic increase in recovery and sperm count. 

Good luck brother.

[Sorbate]

4 hours ago, a_ahmed said:

I got on HRT at 23, then at one point got off to freeze my sperm. I always thought I'd do IVF only in Canada and that I wouldn't have to ever get off again (it was traumatizing physically mentally and emotionally). Well after 4 failed IVF attempts and lots of money later... the last IVF with my wife was successful but resulted in a neural tube defect and the loss of our child. I've gone through so much trauma in the past decade with hormonal issues and with IVF attempts.

Now we found a place abroad which costs a lot less, but I have 0 sperm. My count before HRT and during clomid after I got off ranged in the 0.5-3mil range. Abnormally low requiring IVF+ICSI

Since I can't produce fresh sperm, I have to get off... Otherwise transporting my frozen sperm is very costly and a long beaurocratic process to get paper work completed in the other country for recieving  and custom purposes.

So I need help to survive this process, to produce maximum sperm and to not shrivel away and get super fat.

I took a break from bodybuilding for about two years then got back into it mid last year... and I was finally making progress but here we go gotta get off... of all things right now i'm on test, equi, tren and deca... so pretty harsh...

My plan first month:

HCG 2000iu Mon and Thur
Clomid 150mg ED
Aromasin 12.5mg ED

Second month:

Clomid 100mg ED
Aromasin 12.5mg ED

Then continue on until procedure where I have to jerk off and give sample lol...

 

At the same time I was thinking adding GHRP2+MOD-GRF to retain gains and starve off fat... some ppl mentioned SARMs but if I am not mistaken those kill sperm no? Or only some do? I don't want to be sterile... I need maximum sperm lol... I think mk and that other number one lol are like GHRP but oral... so not testosterone related?

 

Please help... to top it off I am pretty stressed at work and with other things and this has to happen... my biggest stress relief in life has been bodybuilding where i could cope with anything...

You know you could always adopt.  A child doesn’t need to be blood related to be your child.  

Try to find one that is really young.  We adopted my sister when she was 4 months old.  I don’t think if her any different than my brother.  And that’s even though she’s Chinese and we are Irish.

my stepson had a child, but is a moron, and I’m raising his child, and my grandson doesn’t seem any less my son than if he were my biological son.

Btw I cannot have kids either.  Stop stressing yourself over it and trying to do the imposdible seems silly to me when you could easliy be a father to a child who needs one.

Edited February 8, 2019 by Sorbate

[m1garandfan]

I did some pretty long cycles, waited 2 weeks after my last pin then ran a nolva/clomid + HCG plan similar to yours.  It took a few months, We had baby number1 in 2012, i ran the same protocol 2 years later and had another baby in 2014.

Maybe you're not waiting long enough?  Have you tried running your compounds through a cycle calculator? ...learn how long  you have to wait before starting the HCG.  You might be perfectly fine just not timing things right.  Be patient, it can take several months for the boys to fire back up.

[Fizzyx]

22 hours ago, Corey5150 said:

here are my thoughts:

- don’t bother starting your planned pct until you’re below therapeutic levels of the drugs (Given the enanthate ester for example I wouldn’t recommend starting pct until a minimum of 5 weeks have passed - considering your use of the other drugs adjust to the longest ester). 

 

Does the HCG not act independently of negative feedback? It is often used on-cycle to preserve testicular function therefore it should still be effective at restoring testicular function (assuming he is not primary hypogonadal) why there is still active exo test in his system. I agree that he should at least consider coming off. If he does decide to, then starting the HCG at the point of discontinuation could be a nice bridge to get things started. 

[Corey5150]

18 hours ago, Fizzyx said:

Does the HCG not act independently of negative feedback? It is often used on-cycle to preserve testicular function therefore it should still be effective at restoring testicular function (assuming he is not primary hypogonadal) why there is still active exo test in his system. I agree that he should at least consider coming off. If he does decide to, then starting the HCG at the point of discontinuation could be a nice bridge to get things started. 

You’re correct but I wasn’t suggesting anything while on cycle. My honest opinion is if he hasn’t been running it the whole time his sensitivity is severely diminished (and this has been shown in studies prior) so the dose we need is to be much higher (and even then recovery is not as good as if it were run throughout) but then we run into aromatization issues. 

When it comes to hcg too many run it “alongside” their pct, when running higher doses will further suppress HPTA when in reality we want to stop hcg prior to the start of the actual pct so your body can then re-sensitive itself to its own LH production.

[Physlifter]

I have fertility issues.  It took my wife and I 4.5 years to have a child.  When my second wife and I wanted to have a baby I got checked out.  I had zero sperm...nothing..nadda...when I was 25 I had 10 mil per load..practically nothing.  Less than 100,000 is considered sterile.

You don't need to hurt your self...more does not equal better.  It is well established protocols in restoring sperm production with a third of what you want to take. 

You also need to clearly prioritize as said previously what you want out of life.  You need to come off EVERYTHING PERIOD.  If you're so concerned about your gains or losses then I question what you want for a child, and any resentment you'd build up towards said child if psychologically you can't handle being off for so long and what comes with it.  But as @Corey5150 said as long as you eat clean, do cardio, train for your HEALTH then you will be ok, and will bounce back eventually.  

Back to the point -> i was able to correct myself and in 2 months my wife and I were pregnant, had a miscarriage, then got pregnant again the very next month.  This was after a well researched protocol established from medical journals that is validated and tweaking it a bit more to my needs, but not going overboard:
 

100 mg clomid for 2 weeks, then 50 mg afterwards for 2 months

HCG 500 IU every 3 days - ran three 5000 IU bottles and not the chinese stuff

20 mg of nolva every day for 2 months 

Where you've been on a ton of stuff yes I can see where you want to run aromasin until you can get through your half lives, but you need estrogen.  You need normal activity of your body in order to stimulate those cells to produce sperm...THEN the sperm have to maturate.  You will not get ANY of this being on anything..ever..at all.  You want it done right, you need to make tough sensible choices, and do it for the right reason.  

My son is 3 now, a super power house.  Now i'm back on TRT for life with 2 big blasts a year, and it's great.  I've never felt better.  

[Corey5150]

2 hours ago, Physlifter said:

I have fertility issues.  It took my wife and I 4.5 years to have a child.  When my second wife and I wanted to have a baby I got checked out.  I had zero sperm...nothing..nadda...when I was 25 I had 10 mil per load..practically nothing.  Less than 100,000 is considered sterile.

You don't need to hurt your self...more does not equal better.  It is well established protocols in restoring sperm production with a third of what you want to take. 

You also need to clearly prioritize as said previously what you want out of life.  You need to come off EVERYTHING PERIOD.  If you're so concerned about your gains or losses then I question what you want for a child, and any resentment you'd build up towards said child if psychologically you can't handle being off for so long and what comes with it.  But as @Corey5150 said as long as you eat clean, do cardio, train for your HEALTH then you will be ok, and will bounce back eventually.  

Back to the point -> i was able to correct myself and in 2 months my wife and I were pregnant, had a miscarriage, then got pregnant again the very next month.  This was after a well researched protocol established from medical journals that is validated and tweaking it a bit more to my needs, but not going overboard:
 

100 mg clomid for 2 weeks, then 50 mg afterwards for 2 months

HCG 500 IU every 3 days - ran three 5000 IU bottles and not the chinese stuff

20 mg of nolva every day for 2 months 

Where you've been on a ton of stuff yes I can see where you want to run aromasin until you can get through your half lives, but you need estrogen.  You need normal activity of your body in order to stimulate those cells to produce sperm...THEN the sperm have to maturate.  You will not get ANY of this being on anything..ever..at all.  You want it done right, you need to make tough sensible choices, and do it for the right reason.  

My son is 3 now, a super power house.  Now i'm back on TRT for life with 2 big blasts a year, and it's great.  I've never felt better.  

This is a great post!

[Local Dipshit]

2 hours ago, Corey5150 said:

This is a great post!

I second this 

[Frostislandking]

You could use some SARMS that are not technically SARMS. It would soften the blow. 

Osterine is a sarm but only causes 5% suppression at a moderate dose

 Cardarine is a PPAR not actually a SARM so that shouldnt do anything to sperm

Nutrobal is for GH not a traditional SARM ether and would help sleep, recovery and well being.

 

I havent ever had to look into your problem but thats some info i know that could be helpful so you dont feel like complete garbage  

[Frostislandking]

Also my advice would be come off slowly long pct and add in the products i mentioned.

Then wait a very long time for everything to clear your system before you start trying and get some bloodwork and sperm samples done.

 

Im so paranoid i never did any gear for years before having my kids i would of been afraid of birth defects(ignorantly as i have zero information on that just me being paranoid)