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Uh-oh - Gyno - What's my protocol?


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All right, boys. Never thought this would happen to me. I'm three cycles in previously and never had any issues with gyno.

I'm running Test/Tren (for the first time) at 250mg/350mg per week, respectively. Adex at 0.5mg E3D. Only a week and a half in now. So far 0 sides from Tren except a little insomnia.

About four days ago I pinned my pecs for the first time. Left pec on Thursday and right pec on Friday.

Pinning the pec stung like a bitch when I pulled the pin out. A hot shower and a deep sleep later, no pip-type soreness the next day. Just felt like I did heavy pec flyes for an hour.

So then yesterday, I take a shower in the afternoon and my right breast starts feeling weird - just uncomfortable. I kept thinking, oh, it's just soreness from pinning my pec. Then I get paranoid about gyno and feel around a bit. I find a hard lump ABOVE my left nip. I always thought gyno was behind the nip?

Anyways. I tell myself that if I still feel like this for the next few days and my nips start itching I'll start a gyno protocol.

Well, I wake up this morning and my left nip is puffy, right nip is fine - but both nips are itchy.

TL;DR: Got acute gyno. What's a good protocol to tackle this shit?

I've got Adex/Nolva/Prami on hand.

I'm thinking: 40mg Nolva ED, 0.5mg Adex EoD, titrate Prami up to 0.5mg ED.

Will I be good with just the Nolva + Adex? Prami is going to take a while to titrate up. I've heard nothing but hate for it lol.

Edited by instagrande
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Hey, sorry you haven't received any replies yet. I think your case is somewhat unique so ppl might not have much experience to lend. I found the following post on another site:

 

Quote

The problem we face is that often we don't really know or fully understand/appreciate just what effect the many different steroidal compounds are elliciting on our endocrine system. If there was only androgens and estrogens our job would be easy but sadly there are other contributory influences which, without proper blookworks to ascertain different hormonal levels, is often "best guess" regarding avoidance/treatment. 

Firstly, there is no "prolactin gyno". Gyno from elevations in prolactin in the absence of other hormonal elevations is almost unheard of. People often confuse prolactin with progesterone but they are not strongly linked. If you are lactating, then there are drugs which will help such as Dostinex, though such drugs will not lower progesterone. That said, elevated prolactin is a favourable environment for gyno! Progesterone can by controlled by certain drugs, most notably RU486 (abortion pill), the only problem being that many of these drugs are also anti-androgens which is not great as I'm sure you can imagine. Prolactin incidently is also influenced by estrogen so an anti-estrogen would also assist against prolactin. The prolactin/progestone link on forums occured when studies of female animals were cited. Unfortunately, data from menstrual or pregnant women or rats is not a great deal of use when considering the effects in males, although interestingly, elevated progesterone in male rats was linked to lowered prolactin levels, which was not witnessed in female rats. It is clear that we must be cautious in extrapolating data to human male bbers! 

So that leaves us with the two obvious potential bad guys; estrogen and progesterone. 

Estrogen is relatively easy to control. You can either inhibit conversion to estrogen through the use of an Aromatase Inhibitor (arimidex, letrozole etc). These drugs to a more or lesser extent will interfere with the aromatase process to estrogen formation. Or you can use so-called anti-estrogen drugs such as nolvadex which occupy the estrogen receptor so that circulatory estrogen cannot "dock" and activate the signalling process. Nolvadex is actually a weak estrogen itself, otherwise receptor binding would not occur from the drug, so it is not beyond the realms of possibility that nolva itself could create estrogenic issues by virtue of it's receptor binding signal, though in reality the risk is very low since it is so weak. For those particularly gyno prone, then a combination of the two methods may be appropriate. It's worth noting though that AI's will not assist against drugs that do not aromatise, at least against those which do not aromatise through the normal process (enzyme aromatase). It is thought that certain steroids may convert through other metabolite pathways, or are even capable of direct activation of the estrogen receptor, though data supporting such ideas is scant. 

  
Progesterone, or progestinal drugs are more difficult to get the head around. Progestins such as trenbolone will rarely cause issue gyno issues in the absence of elevated estrogen (tren does not aromatise). However, this does not explain some reports of gyno problems whilst running tren by itself so it is reasonable to assume that there is a pathway available for progesterone to be problematic. It is true that nolvadex can actually worsen a progesterone problem as it will upregulate the progesterone receptor so it would be unwise to attempt to treat gyno from a suspected pgr only angle. Of course, if someone were running a cycle of testosterone (which aromatises) and trenbolone (a progestin that does not aromatise), you could be forgiven that you would be caught between a rock and a place that is rock-like. However, it brings us back to the earlier point that gyno problems are mostly estrogen related so it would be prudent to assume that estrogen control should be the first line of attack. 


Incidentally, it is not just elevations in estrogen or progesterone that create problems. Low androgens with normal or low estrogen/progesterone can also lead to issues. This point is clearly demonstrated in ageing men with severely declining androgen levels suffering "manopausal" symptoms! 

 

Since you're only running 250mg/wk of test and you have some Adex going, I will guess that the Tren is the main culprit. Is it Tren Ace? I think your revised protocol looks good. Personally I have zero tolerance for gyno risk so if it were me, I would slash the Tren dose, get things under control, and then ramp it back up incrementally so that you know where your personal thresholds are...

Edited by Fizzyx
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If you've only been on for 10 days I don't believe your gear is causing your gyno. Most of your stuff is sitting in lumps in your muscles still. Not to mention it takes a while for your body to realize the heightened hormones, upregulate aromatization and for estrogen to increase, then you still need it to go to work on the gland. Are you sure the lump wasn't there before? A lump doesn't mean you are having gyno sides. We all have the gland there. It's whether it's growing or not. Which is less common than people make it seem.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Cheers for the replies, boys. Been pretty busy with work so even I didn't get a chance to check this thread haha.

I personally never want to deal with gyno, so I nuked this shit. I doubled my Adex dosage and started taking 40mg Nolva for the first week and then 20mg for the next two weeks. Lump is gone - no itchy nips, dropped the Nolva but I've kept my Adex dosage at double what I started with.

It was definitely the Tren causing this but I've got it all under control now. Pretty happy with the result! 

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...
On 4/10/2019 at 7:11 PM, instagrande said:

Cheers for the replies, boys. Been pretty busy with work so even I didn't get a chance to check this thread haha.

I personally never want to deal with gyno, so I nuked this shit. I doubled my Adex dosage and started taking 40mg Nolva for the first week and then 20mg for the next two weeks. Lump is gone - no itchy nips, dropped the Nolva but I've kept my Adex dosage at double what I started with.

It was definitely the Tren causing this but I've got it all under control now. Pretty happy with the result! 

Sorry to say Nolva and adex do nothing for Tren Gyno ! your are very lucky! next Tren cycle you need Caber on hand !

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that explain Tren Gyno! 

 

ps: I have gyno 2 times and two operation don't fuck with it! 

 

Tren Gyno

A lot of people get Tren Gyno and can’t stop it or get rid of it.  I’m going to show you how to get rid of it if you’ve already got it, and to prevent or stop it if tren gyno has just started or if you fear it starting.

Trenbolone while incredibly anabolic and androgenic, comes from the 19-nor family of anabolic tren gynosteroids.  The 19-nor family is so closely related to Progesterone that Tren is actually called a “Progestin” not a testosterone.

Progesterone and Prolactin (trenbolone increases prolactin a ton) are what cause the growth of glandular tissue behind the nipple.  If you have Tren Gyno you will probably notice a hard lump that you can grip with two fingers.  This is different than estrogen gyno which is characterised by itchy swollen nipples.  Tren doesn’t give any warning signs and you basically develop a lump overnight.

If you’re having a problem with tren gyno, nolvadex, aromasin, letro, none of them are going to do jack shit.  You need a dopamine agonist.  This is not something to fuck around with.

As long as estrogen is controlled progesterone won’t really matter.  You need to get you prolactin down.  When your prolactin is high you will notice things like weak erection and not being able to cum as easy or at all.  You will also notice a brain fog or a “Block” when it comes to sex.  You’ll notice that something just isn’t right.

Tren Gyno

Tren Gyno

Terrible Feeling.

The 2 dopamine agonists that will fix you right up are Cabergoline or Pramipexole take your pick.

Caber is superior and has less side effects, the USA brand name for Caber is “Dostinex”

Once you start taking caber or prami your gyno will go away in a few days.  Dose the Caber at .5mg every other day.

Once you start on a dopamine agonist it’s going to surprise the shit out of you, how no amount of nolva, arimidex, or letro could do shit against your gyno, but as soon as you throw in some Caber Ta-Da! magic!

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jetpilot said:

Sorry to say Nolva and adex do nothing for Tren Gyno ! your are very lucky! next Tren cycle you need Caber on hand !

 

1 hour ago, Jetpilot said:

that explain Tren Gyno! 

 

ps: I have gyno 2 times and two operation don't fuck with it! 

 

Tren Gyno

A lot of people get Tren Gyno and can’t stop it or get rid of it.  I’m going to show you how to get rid of it if you’ve already got it, and to prevent or stop it if tren gyno has just started or if you fear it starting.

Trenbolone while incredibly anabolic and androgenic, comes from the 19-nor family of anabolic tren gynosteroids.  The 19-nor family is so closely related to Progesterone that Tren is actually called a “Progestin” not a testosterone.

Progesterone and Prolactin (trenbolone increases prolactin a ton) are what cause the growth of glandular tissue behind the nipple.  If you have Tren Gyno you will probably notice a hard lump that you can grip with two fingers.  This is different than estrogen gyno which is characterised by itchy swollen nipples.  Tren doesn’t give any warning signs and you basically develop a lump overnight.

If you’re having a problem with tren gyno, nolvadex, aromasin, letro, none of them are going to do jack shit.  You need a dopamine agonist.  This is not something to fuck around with.

As long as estrogen is controlled progesterone won’t really matter.  You need to get you prolactin down.  When your prolactin is high you will notice things like weak erection and not being able to cum as easy or at all.  You will also notice a brain fog or a “Block” when it comes to sex.  You’ll notice that something just isn’t right.

Tren Gyno

Tren Gyno

Terrible Feeling.

The 2 dopamine agonists that will fix you right up are Cabergoline or Pramipexole take your pick.

Caber is superior and has less side effects, the USA brand name for Caber is “Dostinex”

Once you start taking caber or prami your gyno will go away in a few days.  Dose the Caber at .5mg every other day.

Once you start on a dopamine agonist it’s going to surprise the shit out of you, how no amount of nolva, arimidex, or letro could do shit against your gyno, but as soon as you throw in some Caber Ta-Da! magic!

 

 

Cheers. Bloods showed that prolactin was within range (on the lower end). I had/still have prami on hand so it wasn't necessary. Nolva's been the go-to for gyno for years and with multiple studies to back it up. For sure prolactin will be an influence in the growth of gyno and leaky nips - but my dick/mood was fine. 

Next blast will be on Tren again so this is information on tren gyno and how it differs is good to have. Thanks for sharing. 

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