Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I'm curious...

I'm about 8 weeks or so into my TRT, and my experience so far is just fantastic.  Nice physical changes - waist shrinking and getting leaner while strength is increasing - this is MUCH different and WAY better than previous cutting cycles.

But maybe the biggest surprise is the mood improvement.  I can't really say my mood was particularly low before, or at least I didn't realize it, but it's SO much better now I can hardly believe it!  The nice libido boost is a nice contributor to the overall mood boost, but it's much more than that.  I'm sure you know exactly what I mean if you've experienced it. Right-across-the-board improvements.

My question is how long does this last?  Does mood stay elevated like this ongoing?  If it changes/diminishes, then how, by how much?  Or do you just permanently become a superhero 😎 ?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How much and what kind of trt protocol are you on?

Personally, i was off gear for quite awhile when I first went on my prescribed trt. Doc put me on androgel, DHEA and low dose arimadex. The increased hormones gave me elevated mood and super sex drive for a couple months before it kinda became "normal", and i didn,t notice it as much. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

100mg Test Cyp/wk, 25mg DHEA/day

 

Edit: And by 'normal', do you mean the elevations became the 'new normal' or they subsided to where they were previously?

Edited by BobTheOldLifter
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, BobTheOldLifter said:

I'm curious...

I'm about 8 weeks or so into my TRT, and my experience so far is just fantastic.  Nice physical changes - waist shrinking and getting leaner while strength is increasing - this is MUCH different and WAY better than previous cutting cycles.

But maybe the biggest surprise is the mood improvement.  I can't really say my mood was particularly low before, or at least I didn't realize it, but it's SO much better now I can hardly believe it!  The nice libido boost is a nice contributor to the overall mood boost, but it's much more than that.  I'm sure you know exactly what I mean if you've experienced it. Right-across-the-board improvements.

My question is how long does this last?  Does mood stay elevated like this ongoing?  If it changes/diminishes, then how, by how much?  Or do you just permanently become a superhero 😎 ?

DUDE! So happy for you that you are feeling so good. Well done!

It's been 10 days for me now on my 1st ever, aside from Androgel, which pales in comparison. The wife mentioned today that she can't believe the obvious difference in just my overall mental state, how I'm talking/behaving etc. I thought that was a bit quick so maybe placebo, but given I started on the 16th with a full cc of Test E 250 and that I decided to up my target from 200/week to 300/week and I'm doing it eod and I seem to have found good balance so far with 50mg of Clomid eod and .5mg Anastrozole same eod, and given that my levels were damned low for me, after some research I don't think I need to worry about this being placebo effect.

the only thing I need to try is that I think the clomid is causing a bit of hot flashing or increased temp so I'm going to take a break from that for a week/couple of weeks and see what happens. I won't be getting labs again until end of august so just kinda have to guess at it a bit based on how I feel and everything I have learned from all of you amazing people!

Anyway, full steam ahead, and I hope both of us do nothing but power forward feeling more and more like superheroes for the rest of our lives!

Edited by Francis "Frank" Castle
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, congrats to you too!  And I hope this stays the same for both of us.

Any particular reason you cranked it up so soon?  I'm gonna run as long as possible with 100mg or so (and see if my Doc will up my dose a little) and throw in a few 'boosters' here and there.  Have just done two boosts of 125mg on top of my script, so 225mg/wk and BOOM,  couple days later woohoo!  

I'm sure you've heard of 'beer goggles', well the "test goggles' are a real thing, I can tell you that!

Yesterday, I put on a short-sleeved collared shirt I've had for years and hardly could squeeze my arms into it!!  Haha!!  Also though, I'm doing a low-dose Rad 140 too (20 mg/day) - (almost done) and that might be contributing to the muscle/strength gain for sure, but not mood/libido. That was all jacked up b/f I added the Rad 140.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Francis "Frank" Castle said:

Anyway, full steam ahead, and I hope both of us do nothing but power forward feeling more and more like superheroes for the rest of our lives!

Oh, and you might recall I added Cialis into my bag of goodies.  On top of the test, I'm like a friggin' tripod for the weekend!

Feel very fortunate that my wife is right into it!  Multiple times per day - that hasn't happened in, like, decades!!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BobTheOldLifter said:

Hey, congrats to you too!  And I hope this stays the same for both of us.

Any particular reason you cranked it up so soon?  I'm gonna run as long as possible with 100mg or so (and see if my Doc will up my dose a little) and throw in a few 'boosters' here and there.  Have just done two boosts of 125mg on top of my script, so 225mg/wk and BOOM,  couple days later woohoo!  

I'm sure you've heard of 'beer goggles', well the "test goggles' are a real thing, I can tell you that!

Yesterday, I put on a short-sleeved collared shirt I've had for years and hardly could squeeze my arms into it!!  Haha!!  Also though, I'm doing a low-dose Rad 140 too (20 mg/day) - (almost done) and that might be contributing to the muscle/strength gain for sure, but not mood/libido. That was all jacked up b/f I added the Rad 140.

My initial plan was to go 200mg/week. The big shot at the front was the plan just because between what i had researched and heard and then was able to look at in a calc about the doses and how they would respond in body at certain levels, the big shot showed a better response for the over-all effect. I decided to bump to 300/week, well it's actually 7 shots over 2 weeks as its eod so .34/.35cc eod of the Test E 250, as between what I was reading here and on the web and considering that each mg of Test actually ends up yielding only somewhere in the 70 something % of that total dose in body (can't remember the exact % at the moment, it might have been 80 but for this response doesn't really matter exactly lol), I figured what the hey and just went for it.

There didn't seem to be any real dangers going 300/week vs 200/week so just went ahead and thought we'll see what happens lol...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, BobTheOldLifter said:

Oh, and you might recall I added Cialis into my bag of goodies.  On top of the test, I'm like a friggin' tripod for the weekend!

Feel very fortunate that my wife is right into it!  Multiple times per day - that hasn't happened in, like, decades!!

I'm not quite there yet but I have had a couple surprises out of nowhere that as luck would have it the wife was there for 1 and the other she was home shortly after so despite me being a "hands on" type of guy and never wanting to leave to others what i can take care of myself, bwahahahahah, I waited and let her have at it hehehehehe

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, BobTheOldLifter said:

Oh, and you might recall I added Cialis into my bag of goodies.  On top of the test, I'm like a friggin' tripod for the weekend!

Feel very fortunate that my wife is right into it!  Multiple times per day - that hasn't happened in, like, decades!!

Oh, and I think I mentioned somewhere previously that I had just received a box of prezzies from Pink Cherry that I ordered for the wife so the timing couldn't be better lol

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Francis "Frank" Castle said:

There didn't seem to be any real dangers going 300/week vs 200/week so just went ahead and thought we'll see what happens lol...

Agreed, I'm sure you're not in any 'danger' zone, especially that you're keeping an eye on your blood.

Personally, because I'm in this for the long haul, I want to really try to keep to the lowest effective dose.  I don't have an addictive personality generally, but DAMN, the benefits are such that sometimes it's a struggle not fill up my butt cheeks with as much test as I can jam in there!!

But seriously, I'm a little concerned that it will always be easier to increase the dosage than cut back (for me at least) so I want to settle in on the lowest dosage that feels good, and go from there...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, BobTheOldLifter said:

Agreed, I'm sure you're not in any 'danger' zone, especially that you're keeping an eye on your blood.

Personally, because I'm in this for the long haul, I want to really try to keep to the lowest effective dose.  I don't have an addictive personality generally, but DAMN, the benefits are such that sometimes it's a struggle not fill up my butt cheeks with as much test as I can jam in there!!

But seriously, I'm a little concerned that it will always be easier to increase the dosage than cut back (for me at least) so I want to settle in on the lowest dosage that feels good, and go from there...

Oh boy, man do I hear that.

Thankfully, I've got great self control and not the type of problematic personality as well. If not, 11 years on the kind of pain meds I have to take daily, unfortunately, would not be the "non event" that it is as just part of my daily routine!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

100 to 150mg weekly is typical TRT.  300mg weekly is NOT TRT that is on cycle.  The maximum TRT i would ever recommend is 200mg per week but preferably 10 days.  You will need to check your hematocrit levels regularly as well as blood pressure.  At least once per quarter I would do full blood work to be sure.

T

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, tedtrushbodyathletica said:

100 to 150mg weekly is typical TRT.  300mg weekly is NOT TRT that is on cycle.  The maximum TRT i would ever recommend is 200mg per week but preferably 10 days.  You will need to check your hematocrit levels regularly as well as blood pressure.  At least once per quarter I would do full blood work to be sure.

T

FWIW, I know someone (in the US) who is prescribed 300mg/wk.  He's been on it for a few years - yep, a beast...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many life extension clinics in the USA will prescribe higher dosages...its a business as opposed to Canada.  300/week is not TRT is basically on which I would not recommend for long term.

T

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Francis "Frank" Castle said:

DUDE! So happy for you that you are feeling so good. Well done!

It's been 10 days for me now on my 1st ever, aside from Androgel, which pales in comparison. The wife mentioned today that she can't believe the obvious difference in just my overall mental state, how I'm talking/behaving etc. I thought that was a bit quick so maybe placebo, but given I started on the 16th with a full cc of Test E 250 and that I decided to up my target from 200/week to 300/week and I'm doing it eod and I seem to have found good balance so far with 50mg of Clomid eod and .5mg Anastrozole same eod, and given that my levels were damned low for me, after some research I don't think I need to worry about this being placebo effect.

the only thing I need to try is that I think the clomid is causing a bit of hot flashing or increased temp so I'm going to take a break from that for a week/couple of weeks and see what happens. I won't be getting labs again until end of august so just kinda have to guess at it a bit based on how I feel and everything I have learned from all of you amazing people!

Anyway, full steam ahead, and I hope both of us do nothing but power forward feeling more and more like superheroes for the rest of our lives!

I take it you're on self prescribed trt? No Dr I know would blast you with 250mg and clomid......? 

 But good luck to you. Hope bloodwork is done at least every 6 months.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Rosconow said:

I take it you're on self prescribed trt? No Dr I know would blast you with 250mg and clomid......? 

 But good luck to you. Hope bloodwork is done at least every 6 months.

Yes, self prescribed but not by choice and not on a whim. I detailed this in another post somewhere here.Suffice it to say it is a necessity not a vanity or performance thing and with an endo referal at least February away I didnt have any choice but to do this myself.

I wanted to do HCG not Clomid to be honest but it wasn't in the budget. It will be just not quite yet.

I'd be very interested to have you go into more detail as from what I have been able to find out on my own, it seems that Clomid is used fairly often in this fashion. But as I have said many times, this is all very new to me so I'm still learning and if I have made an error I am all ears to hear about it. Would rather hear about it and correct it than not right. and btw, I did mention, in the post that you quoted, that I'm having my next bloodwork in August.

 

@Rosconow

Edited by Francis "Frank" Castle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, tedtrushbodyathletica said:

100 to 150mg weekly is typical TRT.  300mg weekly is NOT TRT that is on cycle.  The maximum TRT i would ever recommend is 200mg per week but preferably 10 days.  You will need to check your hematocrit levels regularly as well as blood pressure.  At least once per quarter I would do full blood work to be sure.

T

The goal is to get my levels up as quickly as possible. Next labs are in august, Based on those then I can adjust. I guess maybe some folks have missed this but for me this isn't a vanity or performance thing, its a matter of health and getting my levels back up quickly, after having my new doc turn me down for TRT even after seeing my file/past treatment, and being at least Feb from an endo referral I was in a spot where I needed to take care of this myself. It was left too long because of the situation with my new doc and me waiting to see if I could manage some other option. So start, labs in 2 months and adjust.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hafta say I'm a little confused about why everyone seems hung up on TRT vs Cycle. If you're not into body building or power lifting for example, and not doing it out of just vanity like some people I have spoken to (nothing at all against that just offering it up as one of the motivating factors) and you're in the boat I am where my health issues not only are quite clearly documented to be associated with low T levels and one of the meds I have to take , again is studied and known to drive down T levels with long term use ( I don't have the option of not taking this med, Period. I simply do not) and all you are trying to do is improve your health to the point where your quality of life isn't suffering, I'm really not sure what difference calling ti TRT or Cycle makes. The only difference I could see is perhaps TRT is ongoing and Cycle is, well Cyclic.

Admittedly I've crammed because of the circumstances but nowhere did I see that 300mg/week would cause me any issue between now and August when I get the labs done. I also know where my levels were from my recent bloodwork and I know if they went any lower how sick I would be as it has happened. So I am combating an illness and a medication both working against me and again very new to this but having no other choice but to go it alone, and did put in a huge amount of time with research and asking questions and reading till my head hurt here.

So maybe someone can fill me in on the part I'm confused about or where I've gone wrong at this point as I have been quite open about being here to learn from you folks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The entire point of TRT is to improve quality of life.  That being said its also about improving quality of life without adding additional risk. No 300mg weekly wont cause many issues in a few months however TRT is never for a few months.  The idea is to get the most out of the least thus limiting sides etc in the long term.  

 

T

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, tedtrushbodyathletica said:

The entire point of TRT is to improve quality of life.  That being said its also about improving quality of life without adding additional risk. No 300mg weekly wont cause many issues in a few months however TRT is never for a few months.  The idea is to get the most out of the least thus limiting sides etc in the long term.  

 

T

Understood. Thank-you.

And this is why my plan was from start to bloodwork in August to evaluate where I am at. The big difference between myself and someone not in my position is that I have both an illness and a medication working in the opposite direction constantly so I have to overcome that and get my levels up which is why I started a little heavy knowing that when the bloodwork came back in August i could adjust accordingly. Also, for me, my levels at start were really low sub 300 total and for me that's barely above where I was at a point and really really sick as a result so there was an urgency to getting my levels up again. I weighed the likelihood of that dose causing an issue over that time period vs the need to get fast results and that's how I got there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, tedtrushbodyathletica said:

Many life extension clinics in the USA will prescribe higher dosages...its a business as opposed to Canada.  300/week is not TRT is basically on which I would not recommend for long term.

T

I would disagree with this in a couple of areas.  First of all, at least where I go (in Canada), it's a business every bit as much as it is in the US.  I pay out-of-pocket for services annually.  The clinic is not a primary care facility, it's a TRT and Life Extension business and is totally upfront about it. 

Secondly the guy I know on 300mg is monitored very closely and regularly.  Lipids perfect, PSA rock bottom, no need for anti-E even though T levels occasionally spike slightly above the 'normal' range.  it didn't start at this dose - it began with gels, creams and so on with poor effect.  Then injections gradually increased to 300 over several years.  I don't think it's necessarily outside the bounds of responsible TRT at least for some people.  For others? Sure - but it's the blood that tells the story.

However, what I would caution against (and we all know it's individual) is the long-term androgenic sides.  If you have a little hair on your back, you should expect to get a lot more, and if you're balding... and so on.  These things I've definitely noticed on him, although he was already bald, so that wasn't an issue.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, BobTheOldLifter said:

I would disagree with this in a couple of areas.  First of all, at least where I go (in Canada), it's a business every bit as much as it is in the US.  I pay out-of-pocket for services annually.  The clinic is not a primary care facility, it's a TRT and Life Extension business and is totally upfront about it. 

Secondly the guy I know on 300mg is monitored very closely and regularly.  Lipids perfect, PSA rock bottom, no need for anti-E even though T levels occasionally spike slightly above the 'normal' range.  it didn't start at this dose - it began with gels, creams and so on with poor effect.  Then injections gradually increased to 300 over several years.  I don't think it's necessarily outside the bounds of responsible TRT at least for some people.  For others? Sure - but it's the blood that tells the story.

However, what I would caution against (and we all know it's individual) is the long-term androgenic sides.  If you have a little hair on your back, you should expect to get a lot more, and if you're balding... and so on.  These things I've definitely noticed on him, although he was already bald, so that wasn't an issue.

Thanks for the info brother, much appreciated.

I really wish I wasn't doing this on my own but having folks offer so much helpful info is a really big deal. Back when I was first looking at all of this I made a conscious note to myself regarding the need to screen/filter everything I read. heard etc as it was obvious there was a lot of "bro science" in play that ended up being really conflicting so classifying the sources according to a reasonable scale of veracity/reliability became a must in order to not make more mistakes than a noob like myself was likely prone to make anyway.

Finding this forum was perhaps the single biggest positive event during the early part of this journey,  especially given the level of quality info available here but more important the level of camaraderie and  just the flat out helpful nature of so many of the folks I have met. I can honestly say that one of my worries was that I would be sen as a "tourist" or "joy rider" because of my not being into lifting or body building or anything like that. The was the single largest motivating force behind my sharing as much of my personal story as I have so that folks would see that despite my having a different situation from a lot of people, I was no less sincerely invested in the process, doing it right, learning how to do that from the right people, etc.

Having the benefit of hindsight, I don't have to guess at the results/impact of not getting my situation under control but never having gone as long as I had this time without TRT, and the portion of the slow degradation/downhill grind of my health, that this was responsible for, I didn't realize how long, and to what extent,  things had been more seriously messed up than even I realized. It's that whole pot/frog/boiling water thing right. Over the last 10-11 years I always had my script for Androgel ready to go or refills waiting at my pharmacy so there was never any delay once I felt the barest inkling that things were sliding to far down into the wrong place again. If I had, at that time, a doc that was more knowledgeable about all of this in addition to his being very co-operative in helping, I would have been doing things much differently, but at least he didn't deny me treatment like my current doc has.

I've never been one for experimentation just for the sake of it, (well there was this time with this Scandinavian goddess and her Vietnamese BFF g/f but that's a whole other story lol) or the type to just throw caution to the wind and I've always been an "over-researcher", or "over thinker" so I can assure everyone/anyone that I may be conversing with at any time that I not only read and evaluate every aspect of this, especially the safety protocols/factors, but that if at any time someone sees me messing up I welcome being told that I am doing so and welcome being told because the person speaking up actually gives a shit about my inexperience not causing me harm.

Maybe some day I will be able to snatch the pebble from the master's hand. Until then I am just a humble student.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"If I had, at that time, a doc that was more knowledgeable about all of this in addition to his being very co-operative in helping, I would have been doing things much differently"

Yeah, what I find so fascinating is the powerful, profound really, effect on mood - even at my relatively low dose up to this point.  I had no idea, and I don't think even most Docs have an idea either.

Also, the discussion got a little derailed, so I'll ask the original question again to the veterans - does the mood/libido boost continue indefinitely and become the 'new normal' or does it decline over time?  I'm thinking that it doesn't really decline b/c if you recall adolescence when the first surges of T was happening naturally, there was no decline - the opposite actually - from say 15 to 25 yrs old.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BobTheOldLifter said:

I would disagree with this in a couple of areas.  First of all, at least where I go (in Canada), it's a business every bit as much as it is in the US.  I pay out-of-pocket for services annually.  The clinic is not a primary care facility, it's a TRT and Life Extension business and is totally upfront about it. 

Secondly the guy I know on 300mg is monitored very closely and regularly.  Lipids perfect, PSA rock bottom, no need for anti-E even though T levels occasionally spike slightly above the 'normal' range.  it didn't start at this dose - it began with gels, creams and so on with poor effect.  Then injections gradually increased to 300 over several years.  I don't think it's necessarily outside the bounds of responsible TRT at least for some people.  For others? Sure - but it's the blood that tells the story.

However, what I would caution against (and we all know it's individual) is the long-term androgenic sides.  If you have a little hair on your back, you should expect to get a lot more, and if you're balding... and so on.  These things I've definitely noticed on him, although he was already bald, so that wasn't an issue.

Where you go may be run like a business which is the same model that many clinics in the US use however in Canada you do not need to go that route as it is fairly easy for a GP to prescribe testosterone.  (i can refer u if required) I have clients that are GP's and they have no issues with this.  Secondly 300mg weekly is typically alot higher than most TRT dosages, this is not my opinion its what I have been told my more than one DR. Is it out of bounds for responsible TRT that is a question for whomever is prescribing it as they will be responsible for the patient.  The other question is does 300mg weekly make sense from an ethical perspective.  Again, many Dr.'s would have issues with that...not all but many.  Keep in mind the higher the dose the more the AR receptor is being stimulated and that will become the new norm.  This is the very reason that guys who are high does cycles and come off and are fully recovered HPTA wise still have extremely low libido.  That takes a long time to change and typically the best way is to reduce T as much as possible to reduce stimulation.  This is the very reason why starting low is ideal.  Estrogen is an individual thing many need no AI some need a bit its hard to say until you are in the midst of it. There are many things to look within blood work, cholesterol , hematocrit, platelets, blood pressure, DHT, thyroid (aas can suppress) etc.  

T

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, tedtrushbodyathletica said:

Where you go may be run like a business which is the same model that many clinics in the US use however in Canada you do not need to go that route as it is fairly easy for a GP to prescribe testosterone.  (i can refer u if required)T

Actually, I much much prefer being a customer. 

When he was giving me the first couple of injections and teaching me to do it, he just told me to come by any time and he would find a couple mins to do it.  I did that, twice, and never waited more than 2 mins.  When I call his office and want an appointment, I get in the next day instead of the "I have an opening 12 weeks from next October".

Not being a customer is the biggest single issue facing our socialist medical system IMHO.

I've also lived in the US and had the best medical care you could possibly imagine - because I paid for it (well had great insurance - same difference).  If more Canadians knew how bad our system sucks compared to the US, they'd be outraged.  But that's admittedly only if you have insurance.  But clearly, when you see how good it can be in the US, universal insurance is a much better option than universal crappy care we have in this country.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...