Tapering Off vs PCT

[Chicago]

What are everyone’s experiences with tapering off instead of pct?

I know Lee Preist and many others only use tapering off without any issues?

Thoughts?

[eazy57]

At my age (almost 50) I go to a TRT dose of test only. 

If I was younger and concerned about my gonads and having kids down the road etc., I'd do a PCT.

That being said, i saw an interview once with Arnold saying they didn't have PCT cycles back in the day. I think Yates may have said the same thing. 

Much has been learned since. 

I've done stopping cold turkey, PCT and TRT... Can't say I had a noticeable difference. 

But this is just my experience. And you shouldn't take it as what you should do. As others will share what works best for them. 

Ultimately, your body will tell you what's best for you. 

[mt666tm]

I worked with a guy that is in his late 50's. Sucks that he just transferred to another location as we had a lot to talk about and I've learned a lot from him. Anyways... he has never done PCT, and he's been on/off for many years. He has always tapered off. No problems. 

He laughed at me when we talked about PCT. He called the younger generations all a bunch of goofs relying on bro-science instead of actual proven history. His words, not mine. I'm sure there are plenty of facts to validate both sides. 

He recently came off his cruise to run RAD-140 + MK-677 just to see what they're all about. I'm looking forward to his update. 

[Blitz]

I don't think it has it be one or the other. I don't think tapering helps recovery, 100-150mg of test is going to fully suppress you so dropping to it definitely isn't going to help you recover. However, I do think there is a benefit to tapering down in terms of how you feel and how you maintain gains.

 

If you're running 1000mg test with 400mg of tren and just stop one day you're relying on the esters to taper. If these are enanthate you're looking at 3-4 weeks before you go below natural levels and your body begins to signal for production. If you're on prop and ace you're looking at about a week to go from super human to castrated man. Doesn't sound smart to me. I think dropping all accessory compounds for a week or two is pretty common and makes sense. Then I like to taper down the test.. This allows you to gradually adjust to being normal or below normal. 

I'm in the process right now I was running 800 test and 400 tren. Three weeks ago was my last week at those doses, the next week I was at 800-200. Last week I ran about 450mg of test. This week and next I'll do 250mg as I blast some HCG. Then I'll drop to 100mg a week for two weeks as I finish my HCG then start nolvadex which I'll run for 6 weeks.

 

Tapering won't help you recover but it'll make you adjust from such a high to such a low easier.

PCT won't help with the drastic drop as it doesn't work fast enough but it will get your recovery going faster and finish quicker.

[OLYMPIC]

100 mg will definitely not supress your test. I'm on near 100 and have always stayed under the level of being un natural. Do blood work, your doctor will show you what natural range is. Beleive the number was 30. I did 125mg of test with Proviron and it took me above the natural level. Semen count went down. So I reduced test to 100 and was perfect. Been like this for 6 months with blood work roughly every 3 months 

[OLYMPIC]

Clen and dnp have been used by many pros on pct. Read up on it 

[biglove]

I for once have always tapered off when on cycle and have always done it.

But i did use pct once to see what everyone was talking about thinking it be better but didn't really like it and clomid made me to sensitive and a big no for me , so i keep doing tapering and good result .

[Nixter]

This was really useful info. I'll have been on TRT (200mg test e) for 2 years this February with a couple blasts thrown in. If i wanted to go natty again, how slowly would I taper from 200?  

[Blitz]

On 9/9/2018 at 2:53 PM, OLYMPIC said:

100 mg will definitely not supress your test. I'm on near 100 and have always stayed under the level of being un natural. Do blood work, your doctor will show you what natural range is. Beleive the number was 30. I did 125mg of test with Proviron and it took me above the natural level. Semen count went down. So I reduced test to 100 and was perfect. Been like this for 6 months with blood work roughly every 3 months 

Just because you're in natural range doesn't mean your not suppressed. Your LH will be suppressed. You're shooting exogenous testosterone, obviously you're going to have good test levels lol. You're registering the test your shooting, you're suppressing natural test. If not we'd all shoot 100mg and keep all our natural levels plus an extra 100mg.

[OLYMPIC]

@Blitz there is a range of 10-30 that is considered natural state. as soon as you pass that threshold of 30 your sperm levels drop . Ive been on this dose and have done multiple bloodwork and semen analysis and trust me all is very well.  If i can use that range and my sperm production and levels have barely changed,then i wont change it for the world. That dose is like bringing back your teenage levels again

My sports doctor is also a competitor so i learn a lot of stuff that is not "bro science"

[Carbone]

Now that I'm older I blast and cruise, when I was younger I would come off. I've done both pct and tapering many times. 

I far preferred tapering off. The psychological and physiological effects were far milder. The problem with tapering is how long it takes.

You need to be certain there are no other active compounds in your body and you have to slowly reduce test levels. 

I may get shit on for this post, but from my personal experience I liked to taper.

[Nixter]

15 minutes ago, Carbone said:

Now that I'm older I blast and cruise, when I was younger I would come off. I've done both pct and tapering many times. 

I far preferred tapering off. The psychological and physiological effects were far milder. The problem with tapering is how long it takes.

You need to be certain there are no other active compounds in your body and you have to slowly reduce test levels. 

I may get shit on for this post, but from my personal experience I liked to taper.

Could you give an example of how long you would taper down?

[Fullblown]

If you're going to taper down i would stay on a TRT dose. If not, there really isn't much of a point tapering down prolonging the inevitable of a PCT.  When your PCT time frame starts just drop what you need to drop and PCT the shit out of your cycle. Unless you're going to maintain a TRT dose.

Personally I dont mind staying on long term.  I'll cruise on a TRT dose for a bit. But im constantly getting bloods done.

[Fizzyx]

Run HCG for a bit before stopping the AAS then taper off the HCG. Gives the testes a head start on recovery.

[Blitz]

9 hours ago, OLYMPIC said:

@Blitz there is a range of 10-30 that is considered natural state. as soon as you pass that threshold of 30 your sperm levels drop . Ive been on this dose and have done multiple bloodwork and semen analysis and trust me all is very well.  If i can use that range and my sperm production and levels have barely changed,then i wont change it for the world. That dose is like bringing back your teenage levels again

My sports doctor is also a competitor so i learn a lot of stuff that is not "bro science"

Sperm production has nothing to do wth me saying injecting 100mg of test will suppress your natural levels. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[mbmuscle]

I think Oly is saying that at 100 he isn't suppressing natural functions because his sperm are still being produced. I don't think he is arguing his test is being replaced but the rest of the system is still functioning normally.

That has me interested. I have low test but I'm trying for a baby so I've been avoiding taking anything at the moment.

Edited October 24, 2018 by mbmuscle

[Carbone]

On 10/24/2018 at 8:43 AM, Nixter said:

Could you give an example of how long you would taper down?

I would cut my dose in half weekly until I was at 100mg / week or less. At this point the ester does the tapering for you. The longest cycle I ever tapered off from was 4 months. I think people may be confused as to how the hpga functions. There are two negative feedback loops that prevent natural testosterone production. Estrogen Negative feedback loop and the Androgen negative feed back loop. If your estrogen is too high or your androgen receptors are too saturated your body won't produce natural test. I have seen and heard of tons of guys blasting pct and nuking their estrogen accomplishing nothing because they still have 100+ mg of test, deca, whatever floating around. Just taper down while running a little adex. You accomplish the reduction of androgen saturation and the reduction of estrogen simultaneously. Just my two cents. If you feel like shit a couple weeks after your last small dose you can always hammer some SERMS. But I just don't see it being necessary. If your testes aren't turned on by that point I don't see how blocking estrogen receptors would accomplish anything.

I am all ears (eyes) if someone can explain to me why this would be incorrect?  

Edited October 26, 2018 by Carbone

[Blitz]

On 10/24/2018 at 7:36 PM, mbmuscle said:

I think Oly is saying that at 100 he isn't suppressing natural functions because his sperm are still being produced. I don't think he is arguing his test is being replaced but the rest of the system is still functioning normally.

That has me interested. I have low test but I'm trying for a baby so I've been avoiding taking anything at the moment.

I'm not saying that other things can't work. I'm saying if you take 100mg of test it will suppress natural production of testosterone. If it didn't we would all take 100mg to go from natural levels to natural levels +100. Instead it take 100mg and your body stays at natural levels because either your body is naturally at 100 or your body might be naturally at 150 so you inject 100, suppress 100 and your body produces 50.

[OLYMPIC]

On 10/24/2018 at 7:36 PM, mbmuscle said:

I think Oly is saying that at 100 he isn't suppressing natural functions because his sperm are still being produced. I don't think he is arguing his test is being replaced but the rest of the system is still functioning normally.

That has me interested. I have low test but I'm trying for a baby so I've been avoiding taking anything at the moment.

For me it was about being able to produce sperm. After that target of 30 your sperm production shuts down.  @mbmuscle give this protcol a try,do testing every month. First test yourself with full pct recovery.

So 100mg of test e and 10 mg proviron changed my life

My natural level was 13,which is borderline decent. 

[OLYMPIC]

13 hours ago, Blitz said:

I'm not saying that other things can't work. I'm saying if you take 100mg of test it will suppress natural production of testosterone. If it didn't we would all take 100mg to go from natural levels to natural levels +100. Instead it take 100mg and your body stays at natural levels because either your body is naturally at 100 or your body might be naturally at 150 so you inject 100, suppress 100 and your body produces 50.

@Blitz i had all my levels tested prior to doing this and it was at 13.

13 isnt good enough. So by me adding 100mg test e i climbed to 29 which is considered perfect while keeping my semen production going. End of the day ,semen production is essential for people trying to have kids. Or else all of this is irrelevant. 

[Fizzyx]

On 10/24/2018 at 6:01 AM, OLYMPIC said:

@Blitz there is a range of 10-30 that is considered natural state. as soon as you pass that threshold of 30 your sperm levels drop . Ive been on this dose and have done multiple bloodwork and semen analysis and trust me all is very well.  If i can use that range and my sperm production and levels have barely changed,then i wont change it for the world. That dose is like bringing back your teenage levels again

My sports doctor is also a competitor so i learn a lot of stuff that is not "bro science"

Just to clarify what you are sharing, 10-30 mg/week dose of test will give you a little boost without suppressing endogenous test and sperm production?

[mbmuscle]

10-30 is the testosterone  blood level. 

[CanadaJim]

Very interesting information....So lets just say someone who is 52 and is in the low normal range for testosterone. What weekly dose of testosterone would be enough to give a boost but yet not screw up natural production?

[BobTheOldLifter]

Others will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that will work.   Even a low dose will shut you down quickly. You'd need HCG to keep you going beyond a very short time.

[Guest]

Once you introduce a synthetic hormone you will be shut down even at a low dose do to the fact you body says ok there is enough we don’t have to produce anymore. Some guys even with a proper pct it’s a tough go at times . It’s always a good idea to have HCG and Clomid. Myself for example I’m completely shut down and I’ve accepted the fact I’m on trt for life , But at my age it doesn’t bother me.