Francis "Frank" Castle

5 hours ago, Lionsfan4 said:

Reading posts above. The “normal range” is not broken down by age. It’s anyone from 18-70 years old. So if you are 40 and at the lowest of normal, in my unprofessional broscience opinion that’s not normal. 

 

This is why why I TRT on my own. I was at the low end of normal 5 years ago at 35 years old.  You just do what’s right for you and be sure to monitor blood.  

Excatly, the whole normal range, as defined by these labs is nonsense anyway. They take 12 months of data, throw out the top 2% and the bottom 2% and what is left is the range. So you end up with a great depiction of the results from guys who were there being tested because they were either already low or suspected to be so and some who were undergoing therapy and being tested again to evaluate results. 0 Clinical relevance.

Dr. Jacob Teitelbaum who is likely the world's leading authority on Fibromyalgia has a great analogy for this stupidity. the normal range of shoe sizes for women say are 6 to 10 and you were a size 9. If I give you a size 7 shoe and say there you go, you aren't going to have much luck with that shoe, wearing it, and then when you tell me it's not the right shoe and describe all your issues as a result of it not being the right shoe well I'll just respond with "But it's in the normal range so you should be fine. Now run along" lololol

2 minutes ago, BobTheOldLifter said:

Happy to help anyway I can.

If this helps, my TRT doc is North GTA, not particularly convenient from Niagara, but 3 or 4 times a year maybe isn't too bad.

I get no extraneous BS as part of the program.  Regular blood tests and consultations.  So far he seems to be an good guy and a good doc.

For comparison purposes the cost, all-in, is probably about $1500/yr.  The Test is basically free for me too(drug plan) be he also has me on lowish dose DHEA (which I'm not sure is really beneficial, but he believes it is and my levels were low) and this wasn't cheap and wasn't covered.  Also some of the blood testing 'extras' have to be paid out of pocket, so all in about $1500 above OHIP and drug coverage per year.

Ok, once Tuesday is out of the way I'll know how I have to act for the immediate time and then go from there. North GTA wouldn't be an issue so that could be of help and after Tuesday I make take you up on that so thank-you. I'm not sure where you get the DHEA here but that's a dead easy one to get from the US for cheap if that helps you at all. It boggles my mind we have to pay for some of those tests and CML/Lifelabs doesn't even offer the sensitive estradiol test. There's a lab in Niagara Falls that does and it's like $50 but you are over $200 by the time you pay for all the required ones that as far as I am concerned should be covered by OHIP, or my extended benefits but they arent.

3 minutes ago, BobTheOldLifter said:

Ok, here's what I'd suggest.

Go to the appointment at the private clinic next week and get all the info.  At this point I assume it's unknown whether or not they want to reel you into a bunch of stuff that you don't want/need, whether or not the cost is too high and so on.

Get all this info, then check back in.  Then take it from there.  

Does the clinic's program make sense for you?  Do you need other Ontario-based TRT suggestions?  Is cost the only issue?

Once the problem(s) are nicely clear, it's easier to solve them.

That is definitely the plan to go and suss it out. Money is an option so anything that OHIP covers is the best option and I do have Good Benefits to pay for the meds so getting somewhere that can script me is ultimately the best scenario. Short of that, if I have to spend, I think the money is best spent on gear to treat myself than giving it to someone for things I don't need. One of the things that worries me about this consult I have is that their website makes no mention of "how much" other than them offering financing for some of the services. Past experience has taught me that usually means they are going to try and load me up but that's fine as no one is selling me anything I don't want or need. I have a background in sales and high pressure sales so I know all the tricks lol.

We could travel some if we needed to so long as it wasn't too often to have to be there. I'm in the Niagara region so Toronto, Hamilton etc is not far, again so long as it isn't too often.

The only thing I'm sort of pondering right now is whether or not I'm going to order some gear from BT right now or wait until after the consult. If I wait and it's a dud then I have lost more time although I guess it's not that much at this point as even if I ordered today i wouldn't have it b4 the consult or likely much sooner than if I order Tuesday. Looking at the related forum BT looks like a good Canadian source but by all means make suggestions in that area if you have them.

Thank-you, really I mean that sincerely. I have been feeling pretty alone in this and it really helps to be able to ask questions and discuss with folks who understand.

10 minutes ago, BobTheOldLifter said:

That's a crappy situation - totally sucks.  They must have learned the prostate cancer/testosterone link in med school and many won't change their view despite mountains of evidence to the contrary.  Kinda kills confidence in the medical profession a little...

Do you have no other TRT alternatives?  What general area of the country do you live in?

The big problem here is that as a result of my health issues and my pain medication working at driving my levels down 24/7, I don't have time to wait. The results of not getting the levels under control, the immediate results, are drop in efficacy for my medications, increased pain levels, increased fatigue, hugely negative impact on my mental state, nothing good and it all gets worse and worse until I will land in hospital, AGAIN. Thats the thing and the big thing that really pissed me off with this new Doc. None of this is conjecture as my records clearly show what will happen as it already has.

My wife attends every Doc appointment with me. When the Doc told me flat out no go and then went on to explain why, and it was obvious that aside from her misinformation there was personal bias at play, my wife quietly excused herself  saying she needed to use the restroom but it was obvious to me that she was livid. My wife is the quietest little mouse who gives everyone the benefit of the doubt always and is just one of those really good people that others should aspire to be. But she was ready to eviscerate this doc. Again, if I wasn't in sucj dire need of my other meds I would have let her have it for being a "C" and walked but I can't. I am also now looking for a new Doc as it's obvious that no matter how hard I try to be a good patient with this one, my progress back to the level of health that i know I can achieve, is going to be stymied in places it shouldn't be and I can't have that.

3 minutes ago, BobTheOldLifter said:

That's a crappy situation - totally sucks.  They must have learned the prostate cancer/testosterone link in med school and many won't change their view despite mountains of evidence to the contrary.  Kinda kills confidence in the medical profession a little...

Do you have no other TRT alternatives?  What general area of the country do you live in?

I am 18 months from an Endo referral, lol, thats already in process and I am looking for something faster. There are private clinic options, one of which I am going for a consult next week but these are not paid for by OHIP, I'm in Ontario Canada, and I only have $50/session with a naturopath (this consult seems to be a naturopath that works with a consulting Doctor) in my extended benefits from my wife's employer. The online info about this place leads me to believe I will go in and they will try to sell me some package with a lot of stuff I neither need nor want (nutritional counseling, CBT etc stuff like that) and the cost will be prohibitive so we will see. Other than that, self medicating seemed like the best path while I explore other options.

14 hours ago, StraightSideways said:

10 years on trt and your new doc won't continue that? That doesn't make sense. Was anything on your bloods out of wack? 

 

Also, welcome to the board. 

My latest Bloodwork showed my Total at 305 and she says thats high enough that I don't need any supplementation because if I go higher I'll get Prostate Cancer. I literally had to bite my tongue to keep from laughing out loud. If I didn't need the other meds I can get from her so desperately I would have walked but it is what it is and here I am.

7 hours ago, StraightSideways said:

Going through the process of all this right now. Test levels at 11 on a scale of 8.8-28.8. Endo said I'm in range so can't do anything about it unless I'm under 10. Blood test again this Friday to see if it's below 10. Tanking sleep on purpose before to try to lower it. 

 

If not, self prescribed it is I guess... 

That's the thing, I went through same with my new Doc. But what's going to happen when you dip below anyway, what, you'll get enough just to bring you back above 10 and then they cut you off again? That is what I suddenly realized with my doc even if I drop enough to get her on board it's doubtful she's gonna let me get high enough to really feel right anyway. What a PITA.  So 8.8 in the stupid scale we use in Canada is 253 in the scale everyone else uses lol. I have never been that low but at 9.4 or 270 I was in horrible shape, I don't even want to think about what I would have been like any lower. We do have guidelines from the govt for this stuff but these docs just seem to either ignore it in favor of their own opinions or don't even know about them. The guidelines are clear about this range not being the only factor and symptoms being important. Not to mention any trans can walk in, cite "informed Consent" and get anything they want. That's a real kick in the nuts, pardon the pun, for people like us. Not to mention CML/Lifelabs creates their range without a shred of clinical relevance yet we are judged by it...absolute nonsense!

I have the same question. I have watched some YT vids with a couple of Docs who rave about Sustanon and it being so superior to what is normally available in the US. Mainly because of the mix of different T types with different half lives so it's superior at avoiding peaks/troughs. Would love to hear from someone that has 1st hand on this.

So as the title states I am on opioid pain medication, and have been for 10 years, and will be, short of a miracle, for the rest of my life.

There is solid research pointing to this situation driving down hormone levels, T, especially but not exclusively, and I can say from first hand experience this is the case. So for 10 years I have been treated with TRT to mitigate the issue. My old doc put me on the Androgel which is a huge PITA and I wasn't aware that I could inject at home (no idea why my doc never told me lol) so avoided injections.

Now I am in a position where I have to do this myself for at least the next 18 months. Blood-work a week ago showed total T at 305. No issues with PSA but that's the extent of it as I am flat broke at the moment, except for my gear fund, and all the other tests cost money. No history of any prostate issues in my family so I'm not the least bit worried there and 10 years of treatment I know by how I feel when I need to back off and always get my Total tested just to make sure.

So because the injections are all very new to me, anyone that may be in the same boat and is doing this on an ongoing basis, I'd be thankful to hear from you with any info/suggestions/tips/whatever. Thankfully I have a better than awesome pharmacist who already told me he would sort me out on the pinning, no questions asked, and keep me in those related supplies. He really feels bad that my doc has hung me out to dry and wants to help any way he can. How lucky is that right. I'm familiar with the hematocrit/RBC levels problem and how to deal.

I plan on supplementing with T and HCG concurrently.

So by all means if you feel you have something to share I will be grateful for it all. Suggestions as to which form of T would be best, schedules of times to inject as in the HCG will be 3X/week, and the T once I suppose so best way to time that if it makes any difference. I also need to get some weight off as I've packed some on for a bunch for reasons that i mostly can't do anything about except for this so if there is a blend or something that may help that issue. So stuff along that line of things as again, this is all very new to me.

Thanks in advance for whatever help/info is shared.

I'm seeing a trend. My new doc is a woman and she's the same way, dead set against it, old doc was a man and no issue. Lots of others I have talked to in the same boat. My doc even cited several times that T causes prostate cancer which we know is 100% wrong with only a couple of exceptions. She isn't even aware that we have guidelines in Ontario, Canada and those guidelines clearly state that I should get TRT but she supplanted her opinion over any medical fact and here I am!

Quite familiar with the sleep apnea thing and have had 6 different sleep tests, of the overnight variety in lab. It's funny how they expect anyone to get a good nights sleep with all those wires attached lol.

One thing I would definitely suggest si that if you are going to be tested then make sure to research where you go. The CPAP industry is big business and some labs will tell you that you need all this tech whether you do or don't and try to load you up, especially if you have insurance paying. Lots of good clinics out there so not hard to find just need to be a bit wary is all.

2 minutes ago, JustMe said:

Welcome to the forum buddy! Have a great time here.

Appreciate the help getting in and the warm welcome.

All the best

Super post, thank-you.

Hello everyone, just wanted to start here in Introductions and say hello.

Really briefly I'm here because after 10 years of successful Trt I moved, lost my doc, new doc "doesn't feel comfortable" prescribing despite all my records etc and I am now 18 months from an Endo referral. Because of my health issues I do not have 18 months to wait so I have to take matters into my own hands. Nuff said.

Looking forward to reading, learning and meeting some folks.

Cheers