Joliter Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 I'm currently doing research for a beginner cycle (never touched injectables). I've found some information regarding the cycle, but very mixed and sometimes contradicting information on PCT. First a little bit of background information about me. -26 years old male -5'9 -between 160-175lbs usually. -BF (from a scale that measures through BIA); 9-11% (I know it's not as accurate as other ways of measuring it, but it gives a number to track progress). -Weightlifting for about 8 years (sometimes taking a couple of weeks off); I never trained specifically for strength, but here are 3 lifts: Bench-265, Squat 315, Deadlift 315. -I eat fairly clean most of the time, but not enough; on average probably about 2,000 calories. This is because I haven't set anything in stone. 2 years ago I followed a plan for 2 months (eating about 3,500calories - clean diet) to reach my goal of 175lbs. I actually weighed in at 178lbs after the program, which was my highest. I was also pretty lean, the scale said 8% BF. I also got bloodwork done this summer just to see where my levels are at. My goals are not set in stone yet, but I'm thinking I want to get at about 185lbs-190lbs. For a cycle from what I've seen, read, and watched online you want to start with smaller amounts, then build up (if you want to do more cycles). Most people recommended Test Enanthate from 250-500mg/week, anywhere from 8-16 weeks. I was thinking of doing 250mg/week for 10 weeks. Now the tricky part is some people say because it's such a low dose and only 10 weeks, you don't need to run an AI along, but you should have some in case of noticing high estrogen levels. Others say to run 12.5mg Aromasin ED (which seems overkill for me). Now PCT is the most confusing part. I haven't seen dosages or what type of compounds to run for this. They were mostly aimed at expert cycles. The 2 compounds that were suggested for other beginner cycles (no dosages though) are HCG and Clomid. Also, there was contradicting information on when to start PCT, some said 3 days after the last injection, others 3 weeks. Would appreciate it if someone could shed some light on PCT, and AI (if needed during cycle). Thanks for reading! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 I always add hcg into my Pcts. I am abit old school I like using chlomid and nolvadex as my PCT the key s timings of the HCG shot to max your recovery PCT Protocol(s): 1.) 1,000 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri) in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for the first 3 weeks. After, discontinue HCG and continue with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for an additional 3 weeks. 2.) 1,000 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri) in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED and 50 mgs Clomid ED for the first 3 weeks. After, discontinue HCG and continue with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED and 50 mgs Clomid ED for an additional 3 weeks. 3.) 1,500 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri) in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for the first 3 weeks. After, discontinue HCG and continue 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for an additional 3 weeks. 4.) 1,500 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri) in combination with 100 mgs Clomid ED and 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for the first 3 weeks. After, discontinue HCG and continue with 50 mgs Clomid ED and 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for an additional 3 weeks. Option one can be considered as a standard PCT protocol. This should apply to all basic cycles. Option 2 is generally the same as option one except for the addition of Clomid which is added as a supporting recovery aid. Option three and four incorporate a higher HCG dosage and have a relationship similar to options one and two in the sense that Clomid is incorporated in the latter as a supporting recovery aid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey5150 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 10 hours ago, Joliter said: I'm currently doing research for a beginner cycle (never touched injectables). I've found some information regarding the cycle, but very mixed and sometimes contradicting information on PCT. First a little bit of background information about me. -26 years old male -5'9 -between 160-175lbs usually. -BF (from a scale that measures through BIA); 9-11% (I know it's not as accurate as other ways of measuring it, but it gives a number to track progress). -Weightlifting for about 8 years (sometimes taking a couple of weeks off); I never trained specifically for strength, but here are 3 lifts: Bench-265, Squat 315, Deadlift 315. -I eat fairly clean most of the time, but not enough; on average probably about 2,000 calories. This is because I haven't set anything in stone. 2 years ago I followed a plan for 2 months (eating about 3,500calories - clean diet) to reach my goal of 175lbs. I actually weighed in at 178lbs after the program, which was my highest. I was also pretty lean, the scale said 8% BF. I also got bloodwork done this summer just to see where my levels are at. My goals are not set in stone yet, but I'm thinking I want to get at about 185lbs-190lbs. For a cycle from what I've seen, read, and watched online you want to start with smaller amounts, then build up (if you want to do more cycles). Most people recommended Test Enanthate from 250-500mg/week, anywhere from 8-16 weeks. I was thinking of doing 250mg/week for 10 weeks. Now the tricky part is some people say because it's such a low dose and only 10 weeks, you don't need to run an AI along, but you should have some in case of noticing high estrogen levels. Others say to run 12.5mg Aromasin ED (which seems overkill for me). Now PCT is the most confusing part. I haven't seen dosages or what type of compounds to run for this. They were mostly aimed at expert cycles. The 2 compounds that were suggested for other beginner cycles (no dosages though) are HCG and Clomid. Also, there was contradicting information on when to start PCT, some said 3 days after the last injection, others 3 weeks. Would appreciate it if someone could shed some light on PCT, and AI (if needed during cycle). Thanks for reading! I fall into the camp of thinking an AI right off the bat is overkill - I cant say this enough, circulating estrogen for growth is crucial. ANYWAY lol I'd 100% have some on hand as you never know how you're going to react. Maybe I missed it but is this your first cycle? Also, I'd say anywhere between 3-500mg per week is a solid first cycle. I would bump it over 250, but thats me. Make sure even if you run 250mg that you're splitting it into two shots of 125mg for more stable blood levels (also, aromasin ED for this amount of test is OVERKILL). I like that you're starting small with the gear but also get your diet in a better spot - not enough food and you won't grow no matter how much gear you put in your system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBJ Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) Keep an AI on hand and get your levels checked after 4-6 weeks or if you feel any sides. You never know, I'm running a trt/cruise dose of 200-250/week and my E2 and libido were shot. I have to run .25 adex eod. Edited October 31, 2018 by LBJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrapsAndLats Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) I would use proviron ,you wont need any AI Proviron will stop the conversion and help you get the most out of each shot. Edited October 31, 2018 by TrapsAndLats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbone Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Using an AI is a highly individual thing. I Only use 0.5 mg of Adex EOD. Even when running high test. It took me a long time to find the sweet spot. Do people still run Nolvadex anymore? My first cycle was some test and nolvadex. If you're only taking 250-500mg test a week, the nolva will prevent gyno and you don't have to worry about crashing estrogen or messsing up your lipid profile. You might hold a little more water, but I imagine if its your first cycle you are looking to put on mass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaFreak Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Personally I wouldn't use anything less than 500mg test per week feels like. Waste, first cycle you should gain off test only the first is always the best , and no ai for 4 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joliter Posted November 2, 2018 Author Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) @Talon Thank you. When would you start HCG and Nolvadex after your last pin? Is there a certain amount of time you have to wait or do you start it right away? Saw information on profile thread here, but I was confused as to what "large vs small ester base anabolic steroids" is referring to, and how would I judge what a large vs small is. @bebeav Thank you. I'm having some issues with nips currently (got them twisted), and I had to go to the doctor because they were super sensitive and they are a little lumpy when it's warm, but if it's cold they go back to normal. Doc said the tissue was damaged, so it will take time to heal, but it's been about a year and I'm not sure if it's healing or not. So, therefore, would water retention be the "best" way to judge estrogen (other than bloods)? @Corey5150 Thank you. Yes, this will be my first cycle. For sure, diet will be locked in as soon as I have a plan in place. I thought Test E has a slower reaction, which would let me just one shot per week, or is it still better to split in two shots/week? If it's better to split then 300mg might be better for ease of measuring, but I don't want anything higher than that. @LBJ Thanks. Will definitely have some on hand just in case. @TrapsAndLats Thanks. I don't really want to add any other compounds for my first cycle though. @Carbone Thanks. Are you talking about running Nolvadex for PCT or during the cycle? @NovaFreak Thanks. I don't want anything more than 300mg for my first cycle. I've read that you can still make great gains from a lower dose when starting out. Edited November 2, 2018 by Joliter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 11 hours ago, Joliter said: @Talon Thank you. When would you start HCG and Nolvadex after your last pin? Is there a certain amount of time you have to wait or do you start it right away? Saw information on profile thread here, but I was confused as to what "large vs small ester base anabolic steroids" is referring to, and how would I judge what a large vs small is. @bebeav Thank you. I'm having some issues with nips currently (got them twisted), and I had to go to the doctor because they were super sensitive and they are a little lumpy when it's warm, but if it's cold they go back to normal. Doc said the tissue was damaged, so it will take time to heal, but it's been about a year and I'm not sure if it's healing or not. So, therefore, would water retention be the "best" way to judge estrogen (other than bloods)? @Corey5150 Thank you. Yes, this will be my first cycle. For sure, diet will be locked in as soon as I have a plan in place. I thought Test E has a slower reaction, which would let me just one shot per week, or is it still better to split in two shots/week? If it's better to split then 300mg might be better for ease of measuring, but I don't want anything higher than that. @LBJ Thanks. Will definitely have some on hand just in case. @TrapsAndLats Thanks. I don't really want to add any other compounds for my first cycle though. @Carbone Thanks. Are you talking about running Nolvadex for PCT or during the cycle? @NovaFreak Thanks. I don't want anything more than 300mg for my first cycle. I've read that you can still make great gains from a lower dose when starting out. Steroid When to start after last admission Length of PCT Testosterone Enanthate 2 weeks 3 weeks Testosterone Cypionate 2 weeks 3 weeks Testosterone Propionate 3 days 3 weeks Testosterone Suspension 6-8 hours 3 weeks Sustanon 3 weeks 3 weeks Winstrol 12 hours 2/3 weeks Dianabol 6-8 hours 3 weeks Trenbolone 3 days 4 weeks Deca durabolan 3 weeks 4 weeks Primabolan depot 14 days 2 weeks Anavar 8-10 hours 2 weeks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbone Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Joliter Ya I mean nolvadex during cycle. Its an older way of doing things before AI's become more available. I used 20mg EOD during cycle and then you would run it at pct dosages when you come off the gear. If you are not squeamish with the idea of injections, 100mg of Test Propionate EOD would be a great first cycle. That would be 350mg / week. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABmonkey Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 I'd recommend going with at least 400mg/week test. I'm currently on first cycle and considered going lower; in the end I'm glad I went with the "standard" 500/week. It's pretty mild and I would have been disappointed with a lower dose I think. Advice I was given and the advice I would give would be not to use an AI unless you have to. Had I gone off all these cookie cutter first cycles my estrogen would be well in the shitter right now - I'm on week 7 and haven't used an AI yet (I also wasn't a fat bastard at the start of the cycle). I think the most important thing is you AT LEAST get pre cycle bloods so you know you're baseline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joliter Posted November 16, 2018 Author Share Posted November 16, 2018 On 11/14/2018 at 3:57 PM, ABmonkey said: I'd recommend going with at least 400mg/week test. I'm currently on first cycle and considered going lower; in the end I'm glad I went with the "standard" 500/week. It's pretty mild and I would have been disappointed with a lower dose I think. Advice I was given and the advice I would give would be not to use an AI unless you have to. Had I gone off all these cookie cutter first cycles my estrogen would be well in the shitter right now - I'm on week 7 and haven't used an AI yet (I also wasn't a fat bastard at the start of the cycle). I think the most important thing is you AT LEAST get pre cycle bloods so you know you're baseline. Mild in what way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernLifters Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Do a little research on Proviron. You may not need anything else with your test. It's a dht derivative. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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