gettingolder Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 I figured this might get a bit of info out there for others and perhaps start an intelligent discussion on how aromatization rates differ genetically from person to person and how we react to high estrogen systematically I posted some of this before on the old forum so perhaps some might remember tidbits of my posts and data from that time if not no big issue as I am genetically unique just like you as an individual are also. What I am posting here is my unique situation and needs but I would not have known any of this without regular blood work and self-experimentation. Yeah some of you remember me being a walking hormone experiment in the past and posting that info and data for the community, not so much anymore as life has changed a lot in the last couple of years and now I have to be somewhat more responsible as its more than just me to worry about now days. Starting off and this is going back to me getting with a TRT doc back in Canada 2.5 years ago. I am not going into too much detail ect but I started self-medicating Test due to being on a bad downhill slide for the better part of 4 years. So being me I went after it with a vengeance and went full cycle with the test dosages. Estro on my first blood work came back at 774 with the scale being at that time 90-300 that specific lab used. Now here is where genetics are the factor. At that estro level I was not experiencing the typical sides like bloat or gyno issues BP ect. Doc was surprised but said he had seen men that were the same in the past high estrogen but no symptoms typically associated with high estrogen. In the reverse he had TRT patients that would grow stripper tits on 150 mg a week without arimidex. As we know high estro is not good you need some yes but having it in range is best longevity wise. Now here I am on 500 of test a week and not being chastised by a trt doc as he was also doing harm prevention for regular gear using guys. This is where I also discovered I have an adverse reaction to Arimidex which is aprox 10% of men. Aromasin no issue so that’s what my Ai ended up being. I was using an Ai from an ugl at the time of my 774 estro reading so it was pure bunk which was proven quite rapidly once I got legit stuff in me and my estro dropped into range rapidly. At 500 a week of test I needed 12.5 mg aromaisn eod to keep me in the middle of the range (90-300) this is where I felt my best at after being both higher and lower my bloods would always be between 150-170. So ramping up to 750 test per week I went with 18.75 eod which was a 12.5 mg tab and one half of another one. Bloods came back still in that mid-range 140-165. So going to a gram of test should be 25 mg eod right? Nope not even fucking close Went down to 96-112 range which for me is feeling like shit city no mojo sore as fuck joints and just plain blah 24/7. Went back to 18.75 eod and bingo back to a good range for me which was a bit higher 165-180 but relatively close to where I wanted to be on average. There are a lot of things that effect estro numbers outside of injecting test and regular normal aromatization that perhaps many don’t think about or consider when they are cycling and trying to dial in their Ai ect. A couple of drinks or beers or glasses of wine will lower test levels yes even synthetic test and raise estro a bit same with puffing the chiba a rise in estro diet lack of deep rem sleep there are a lot of factors that play into it. You will on blood work always see a variance in your estro numbers from month to month. It’s about finding where you feel good everything works properly and you are not having side effect issues. I have not gone past a gram of test as I do not feel I need to as 750 does great things for me. I am not a huge guy at 5’8” I typically walk around at 240-250 in decent shape and have cut down to 205 or so in the past which was difficult to say the least whereas 220 or so is a pretty good number for conditioning health and appearance. Currently my TRT dosage is 175 per week and I use 6.25 of aromasin once per week but I also have started using nolvadex at 10mg eod which does help a fair bit with lipid rebound as it mimics estrogen in the liver and does help recover your lipid profile after a cycle or blast. I cheat a bit though on my TRT as I have 200 a week of Mast E in there also. I do not have issues with DHT’s that some guys have so mast is always in the mix year round. Nope mast does not have a measurable effect on estro numbers in men yes it will mask some of them as it does keep you dryer if you are prone to being fluffy from water retention but it is not a replacement for an Ai when you do need something for estro control. Masteron and its usage though are a whole other topic and thread in itself. Jesus I have not typed this much English in about a year LOL G 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mt666tm Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Good topic... I dont have any Estro numbers to contribute , but I never take any AI. When I go above 500 to 600 Test I get the odd flare, only in my left nip, and half an arimidex puts it out. When I ran 1k Test then I seemed to need half an arimidex EOD. Higher Test than that I was rediculously lethargic so thats where the experiment ended. Arimidex is all I've ever needed, and I'm still on a jar of BT with the old label and hologram, Its well over 2 years old, so that shows how often I need it. I do not aromatize nearly as agressively as some other guys I know that require letro, and I do not have any issues with Prolactin at all... so far. Masteron does seem to work. Ive experimented with it and I'd pin 300 mast when Id have a flare up and it did help put out the fire. Plaecebo effect perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 I've ran 2000mg of test without an AI with no gyno, BP increase or noticeable bloating. I don't run that high anymore typically must 800mg where I stay dry with no AI. Used an AI while competing and wouldn't do it again 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettingolder Posted September 19, 2018 Author Share Posted September 19, 2018 I have a close friend who was also a member on the other forum who also has no estro issues on a gram of test a week his estro numbers would be in the 90's on the scale of 90-300 as we both used the same lab. Some guys have that genetic component and some are like me who can be way high and not have issues symptomatically and then there are the guys that are super sensitive to a tiny bit of estro. This whole thing is a never ending learning experience/ self experiment. I think for some mast can block estro issues in breast tissue as it was designed as a breat cancer drug for women originally. The information on effect on men is poorly studied and minimal information exists and the medical studies and info for women does not cross over or corelate to men but I can see there being a bit of cross over fighting breast tumors in women and gyno in men as both are estrogen related and estrogen dependant for the most part. Hopefully we get some input from low dose high aromatizers here as well. G 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortex Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, gettingolder said: I figured this might get a bit of info out there for others and perhaps start an intelligent discussion on how aromatization rates differ genetically from person to person and how we react to high estrogen systematically I posted some of this before on the old forum so perhaps some might remember tidbits of my posts and data from that time if not no big issue as I am genetically unique just like you as an individual are also. What I am posting here is my unique situation and needs but I would not have known any of this without regular blood work and self-experimentation. Yeah some of you remember me being a walking hormone experiment in the past and posting that info and data for the community, not so much anymore as life has changed a lot in the last couple of years and now I have to be somewhat more responsible as its more than just me to worry about now days. Starting off and this is going back to me getting with a TRT doc back in Canada 2.5 years ago. I am not going into too much detail ect but I started self-medicating Test due to being on a bad downhill slide for the better part of 4 years. So being me I went after it with a vengeance and went full cycle with the test dosages. Estro on my first blood work came back at 774 with the scale being at that time 90-300 that specific lab used. Now here is where genetics are the factor. At that estro level I was not experiencing the typical sides like bloat or gyno issues BP ect. Doc was surprised but said he had seen men that were the same in the past high estrogen but no symptoms typically associated with high estrogen. In the reverse he had TRT patients that would grow stripper tits on 150 mg a week without arimidex. As we know high estro is not good you need some yes but having it in range is best longevity wise. Now here I am on 500 of test a week and not being chastised by a trt doc as he was also doing harm prevention for regular gear using guys. This is where I also discovered I have an adverse reaction to Arimidex which is aprox 10% of men. Aromasin no issue so that’s what my Ai ended up being. I was using an Ai from an ugl at the time of my 774 estro reading so it was pure bunk which was proven quite rapidly once I got legit stuff in me and my estro dropped into range rapidly. At 500 a week of test I needed 12.5 mg aromaisn eod to keep me in the middle of the range (90-300) this is where I felt my best at after being both higher and lower my bloods would always be between 150-170. So ramping up to 750 test per week I went with 18.75 eod which was a 12.5 mg tab and one half of another one. Bloods came back still in that mid-range 140-165. So going to a gram of test should be 25 mg eod right? Nope not even fucking close Went down to 96-112 range which for me is feeling like shit city no mojo sore as fuck joints and just plain blah 24/7. Went back to 18.75 eod and bingo back to a good range for me which was a bit higher 165-180 but relatively close to where I wanted to be on average. There are a lot of things that effect estro numbers outside of injecting test and regular normal aromatization that perhaps many don’t think about or consider when they are cycling and trying to dial in their Ai ect. A couple of drinks or beers or glasses of wine will lower test levels yes even synthetic test and raise estro a bit same with puffing the chiba a rise in estro diet lack of deep rem sleep there are a lot of factors that play into it. You will on blood work always see a variance in your estro numbers from month to month. It’s about finding where you feel good everything works properly and you are not having side effect issues. I have not gone past a gram of test as I do not feel I need to as 750 does great things for me. I am not a huge guy at 5’8” I typically walk around at 240-250 in decent shape and have cut down to 205 or so in the past which was difficult to say the least whereas 220 or so is a pretty good number for conditioning health and appearance. Currently my TRT dosage is 175 per week and I use 6.25 of aromasin once per week but I also have started using nolvadex at 10mg eod which does help a fair bit with lipid rebound as it mimics estrogen in the liver and does help recover your lipid profile after a cycle or blast. I cheat a bit though on my TRT as I have 200 a week of Mast E in there also. I do not have issues with DHT’s that some guys have so mast is always in the mix year round. Nope mast does not have a measurable effect on estro numbers in men yes it will mask some of them as it does keep you dryer if you are prone to being fluffy from water retention but it is not a replacement for an Ai when you do need something for estro control. Masteron and its usage though are a whole other topic and thread in itself. Jesus I have not typed this much English in about a year LOL G Great info here. I haven’t had my numbers checked in awhile, but estro side effects don’t come on to me that easily. I have run 5 grams of test before with no need for any ai, (part of experimenting on my self, not what I usually cycle). The most as far as sides i got was some water retention but then that subsided after a couple weeks and i started looking harder. It is interesting how everyone is different and reacts differently to high test and estro levels. Edited September 19, 2018 by Vortex Typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shredzs Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 mine is lowww Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettingolder Posted September 19, 2018 Author Share Posted September 19, 2018 12 hours ago, Shredzs said: mine is lowww You could probably inject spent uranium and have minimal issues LOL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettingolder Posted September 20, 2018 Author Share Posted September 20, 2018 So anyone here growing stripper tits on a buck fifty a week of trt test? Inquiring minds want to know. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolton73 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Thankfully, the only time i had an issue with gyno was many years ago, when I was taking some vet grade gear. I was on something called Anadiol. It was Test E, but the problem was it contained actual estrogen in it as well, lol. So other than when I've been pumping estrogen directly into my system, I've never had issues with gyno - but do hold a bit of water at times. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLVTCH Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I need to start taking ASin once I get over 400mg/week Test E (pharm grade), usually 12.5 twice a week takes care of it. I don't get gyno sides of any sort but I get everything else. Adex wreaks havoc with my system so I stay away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBJ Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 I was cruising at 350-400 sust/week and my E2 was 221. WAY too high. I switched to 250 Test E/week and .25mg pharma adex/day and it quickly solved the problem. However, my latest bloods show my Test in the high range but my E2 is too low now. So I'm kinda experimenting with dosage now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettingolder Posted September 22, 2018 Author Share Posted September 22, 2018 11 hours ago, LBJ said: I was cruising at 350-400 sust/week and my E2 was 221. WAY too high. I switched to 250 Test E/week and .25mg pharma adex/day and it quickly solved the problem. However, my latest bloods show my Test in the high range but my E2 is too low now. So I'm kinda experimenting with dosage now... You might find it easier to manage with Aromasin 6.25 twice per week. It is a bit more forgiving than adex for a lot of guys. The medical consensus is roughly that 1mg of adex is pretty much equal to 25mg of aromasin they both work a bit differently with adex having somewhat of a rebound effect for estro when stopped whereas aromasin does not. You can also look at adding in 10 mg per day of nolva which does not drop the estro but does prevent it from binding but it also mimics estrogen in your liver which improves HDL LDL values if you have issues in that area. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBJ Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 13 hours ago, gettingolder said: You might find it easier to manage with Aromasin 6.25 twice per week. It is a bit more forgiving than adex for a lot of guys. The medical consensus is roughly that 1mg of adex is pretty much equal to 25mg of aromasin they both work a bit differently with adex having somewhat of a rebound effect for estro when stopped whereas aromasin does not. You can also look at adding in 10 mg per day of nolva which does not drop the estro but does prevent it from binding but it also mimics estrogen in your liver which improves HDL LDL values if you have issues in that area. I do have HDL/LDL issues and have pharma nolva on hand so I'll do that and try .25 adex eod until I get my hands on some pharma aromasin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nissan Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 (edited) With 500mg/wk of Test or higher, I need 25mg Aromasin ED to keep flare ups at bay! Edited November 18, 2018 by Nissan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WADA'sWorstNightmare Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 I've been on around 1000mg of test forever now. I absolutely do not respond to test, so i have to jack the doses just to cruise... it sucks. I dont even bother blasting it anymore. I literally get low T symptoms (like, all of them) at anything less than 800/week. That said, i would have thought i'd need to keep some AI in there to keep shit balanced. I've had sexual issues for some time now (very similar to the OP's), but i've also been blasting and cruising for a solid 5-6 years now. I'd run out of arimadex a couple months ago, and so i was running without all this time since. It FEELS like the estro is creeping up. I get 'the feels' a lot now... and thats always been my marker. BUT... i just had a full panel bloodwork done, with all my gear running perfectly stabilized for once (ie: no changes for at least 3 months, 1000 test, 800 EQ, 60 var/day) and i was shocked to see my estro was normal. If anything just slightly on the lower side of normal. What the hell? So much for needing AIs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelbysdad Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 I can do 700 prop and 50 dbol/day, maybe once every 1-2months need .25 adex to kill sore nips. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nixter Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) I was having ED issues at 200mg trt with 1mg adex/wk. No difference at 150mg either. Now at 100mg, no AI, and all is good. Haven't had bloods yet at this dose but I have zero E2 related issues. Oddly I had no ED issues when i blasted 500mg/wk. Edited January 30, 2019 by Nixter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 7 hours ago, Nixter said: I was having ED issues at 200mg trt with 1mg adex/wk. No difference at 150mg either. Now at 100mg, no AI, and all is good. Haven't had bloods yet at this dose but I have zero E2 related issues. Oddly I had no ED issues when i blasted 500mg/wk. I'd assume your ED it's caused by low estrogen. Is that your thought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nixter Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Labs showed e2 within range. I began to think it was maybe an shbg issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific Rim Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 I had gyno as a teen so my nipples are really sensitive to high estrogen. i get symptoms of gyno above 300mg of Test per week. This is the first year I had any issues with prolactin as well. I have been using for 16 years and this is the first year I had to use Caber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzyx Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 6 hours ago, Pacific Rim said: I had gyno as a teen so my nipples are really sensitive to high estrogen. i get symptoms of gyno above 300mg of Test per week. About the same here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durk Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Doc won’t test my hormones, but I don’t bloat much. Any amount of aromasin gives me ed even if I am on a gram of test. Masteron even does it to me slightly. My only guess is that my estrogen gets nuked too low very easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strength4dayz Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Fuck, I can’t go over 500mg test without needing lots of AI. Nips get puffy and sore fast. I envy you lads who don’t need it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheapshot Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 On 175 test a week I am fine. 200 is too much. I need a tiny bit of ai. On cycle at 800 test i need 12.5 aromasin twice a week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostislandking Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 The only thing that frigs up my estrogen is dbol cant touch it. everything else good to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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